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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 9, 2010 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I 'accidentally' listened to a 77StSt the other day (iTunes on shuffle) and had a real WTF (William Tell Freak-out) moment - I really wondered for a few seconds who this cover band was I'd forgotten about downloading and was somewhat taken aback to discover that it actually was Jerry and Co. Funny how you suppress bad memories.

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Poster: Pretty Vacant Date: Mar 9, 2010 4:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I'd like to add TLEO the list of better-faster-pre-hiatus along with Loose Lucy and St Stephen. Can't listen to post-hiatus for any of these. Too watered down.

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 9, 2010 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Rob, the versions in both early & late 1978 are nothing short of spectacular. I have a hard time understanding what's not to like about them. 1-11-78, 1-22-78 and 12-30-78 are all my favorites. Certainly the singing is much better and Jerry really nails his solos, which I believe are more fleshed out in these later versions. Sure the tempo is slower, but at the same time some of the early slopyness improves because of the slower tempo. One other bonus- we dont have to hear the god awful WT bridge. I guess to each his own, but where am I wrong?

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Mar 9, 2010 6:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

The singing on the 1/11/78 version sounds like Jerry swallowed a ball of steel wool and all three versions you mentioned are full of mistakes.The final slap in the face of integrity for the song is the use of the mutron filter on the 12/30/78 version,adding that cheesy keyboard feel as opposed to an edgy guitar vibe that the song is supposed have.You casually mention the change in the tempo of the song like tempo is of little importance,and go on to point out that since it's slower now Jerry can make less mistakes,that is pretty funny.May be they should have brought back the Eleven and slowed that down,a nice relaxed heroin stupor paced St.Stephen->no god awful William Tell bridge->Three,now that's some fine listening.You must be friends with the guy who likes Furthur's new arrangement of Mountains of the Moon with Phil singing better than the Dead's original 60's versions.

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 9, 2010 7:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Let's be honest here. StSt was never the tightest song as it was hard to play. How many times in 1970-1971 did Bobby flub the last verse by singing "did it..." when everyone else was singing the correct verse?

Garcia's voice was pretty bad on 1-11-78, however his guitar playing is spot on. 1-22-78 is pretty flawless, so I'm not sure what you are referring to (and I'm not sure where the flubs are in 1-11 either). And Phil's singing on the WT bridge is better than Garcia's froggy voice?

Why does one have to choose one over the other when they are all good?

This post was modified by billydlions on 2010-03-10 03:43:36

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Mar 9, 2010 8:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I would never be so bold as to say anyone should have a preference for either version or enjoy both,I,m simply stating that the post hiatus versions suck.I understand that they hacked up St.Stephen pretty much every time they played it in it's 60's,70's and 80's stylings and it goes without saying that the vocals are questionable at best,after all it is the Dead.Since St.Stephen really is not about the singing and certainly not about the lyrics,the music is the important aspect and I would surely rather hear the band snort and stomp it's way through 60's style than that plodding and lame ass noodling that was the 70's version.As for the mistakes on the versions you mentioned they are not mangled,but on the 1/11 version at the pinnacle at about 8:55 he drops a nice hack ->bad vocals and the 1/22 version while not quite as off is far from flawless with various timing and intonation issues,they kick in some hacking at the 6:30-6:50 mark.Not to mention these are better versions of the 33 times they played it post 60's,the large majority are unlistenable and on the verge of unprofessional.You might say I'm nitpicking but you broached the subject of being better vocally and less mistake prone,when in actuality there is little difference in that area.I am in no way trying to belittle your opinion,I'm just expressing mine.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Mar 9, 2010 4:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

"the god awful WT bridge"??

billyd that is one of the high points of my Grateful Dead listening. The StSteve-11 transition was absolutely fundamental in getting me on this ramshackle old bus nearly 40 years go. Yer damn close to blaspheming here, my friend. The lateness of the hour this side of the Pond prevents me ranting further - probably a good thing for both of us. See you in the morning!

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 9, 2010 4:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Yikes, I may have to go in to hiding tomorrow! I love StS and I love the Eleven, just not the WT part! Sorry...I guess I could flip this around and say the 1977-1978 versions of St Stephen are among my favorite GD as well, that's what prompted the response.

p.s. before William Tell joins in the flogging, I'm not lumping 6-14-68 in here, as that's a one of a kind version.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 9, 2010 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

You can run, but you can't hide...I am having a WTFO right now too...of course, I assume you know that I am "William Tell", right? Of course you do...

Oh well, for all the mocking of latter era songs I have engaged in (tongue in cheek and otherwise), maybe, just maybe I deserve to read this once in print...

To be honest though, I never thought I would! I'd almost go so far as to say I am as shocked as if someone said "I like the DEAD, but I just never liked that Dark Star tune" or some such (I know that's a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea--it just never occurred to me that one wouldn't like it...it seems to so typify the DEAD for me).

But, for having the balls to say it, I hearby bestow a miniture Credenza award to you, BD # 2 (but hey, maybe we now have an explanation for all those times I forgot you...maybe I knew this deep dark secret all along, eh?).

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 9, 2010 7:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

We are talking about a 1 minute song, are we not? And you're comparing that to Dark Star? Sorry to let the wind out of your sail, but they should have went right into the Eleven. It's painful to listen to (as is almost anything Phil sings in those days)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 9, 2010 7:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Quality, not quantity...hmmm, maybe that's what Phil was thinking back then too, huh? He certainly didn't sing that much, but now I know I've left you an opening. And yes, my sail is crumpled against the mast at this point. But, I shall stay with the ship--old, sinking, etc., etc...

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Poster: billydlions Date: Mar 9, 2010 7:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Let's not forget who supported you the other day with your minority opinion of 1973.

If the WT bridge was the price to pay to hear the Eleven I guess I can live with it. And on that note, I'm signing off.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Mar 10, 2010 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I'm all for the William Tell bridge - loved it since ever I first heard it.

High green chilly winds and windy vines in loops around the
twining shafts of lavender, they're crawling to the sun

Underfoot the ground is patched with climbing arms of ivy
wrapped around the manzanita, stark and shiny in the breeze

Wonder who will water all the children of the garden when they
sigh about the barren lack of rain and droop so hungry 'neath the
sky...

William Tell has stretched his bow till it won't stretch no
furthermore and/or it may require a change that hasn't come
before

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Mar 9, 2010 8:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I love the WT bridge, the only thing it is missing is bagpipes.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Mar 9, 2010 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

I believe if you believe...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 9, 2010 6:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An epiphany

Don't worry Rob, I got the late shift covered for you; get some rest, and we'll take it from here...the Moderators have already contacted me about this one of a kind assault, and pointed out that though their stance on tolerating trolls is one thing, this is something altogether different...they will be making a decision shortly as to just what does in fact constitute "blasphemy", and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a "winner"...and to think, Billy and I were getting along so well...of course, there was that 82 biz, but really, I thought we were friends. And now this.